Anonymous August 16, 2014 at 9:12 PM
At
600 yards a 55 grain .22 bullet from ANY 5.56 rifle has no more
retained energy than a .22LR.--
Hundreds of US Army and USMC after action
reports show it to be utterly ineffective at ranges over 300 meters.---
You lose 200FPS for ever inch you cut back a 20 inch AR. The 5.56 X 45
kills by fragmentation and cavitation , the bullet will do nether at any
velocity below 2500 to 2700FPS. That means that from a 20 inch AR the
maximum range for a one shot kill is 225 yards. From a 16 inch that MAX
is 172 yards . from a 14.5 that range drops to 80 yards. From a 10.5 its
35 yards. This is a TACTICOOL fad.-- IMO meant to make its worshipers
look like "hard core SF types. I have no Idea who "mosby" is other than
the BS posted on the Internet , but he knows less than squat about
bullets ammunition or ballistics. NO BODY has EVER "dropped a man at 600
yards" with a 5.56 from a 14.5 inch tube . You MIGHT if you are a
Carlos Hathcock class NM shooter , hit the guy at that range , but
nothing short of a head (brain) shot will have any more effect than a
.22 LR at the same range.
AR pistols are "in the room" point blank
choppers that JAM- A LOT. Cops love 'em for the same reason they like
black ninja/Nazi uniforms , they think it makes them look all "operator"
. The original concept for an "assault rifle" was to have a weapon that
was smaller /lighter and used smaller/ lighter ammo at short(400 yards
or less) ranges. That is all they are and all they ever were.
Anyone
telling you that a 5.56 is a "long range battle rifle" is 100% full of
shit. It will make holes in paper at 500-600 yards but not much else.--
The 5.56x45 was developed for the 20 inch barrel and really doesn't work
well with a short tube , like everything else the "shorty" fad has
"F"ed up over the last 40 years.
Sorry but I have to disagree with the "200 feet per second lost per inch of barrel reduced. What Ive always read is a loss of about 50 fps per inch of barrel lost. So instead of 800 fps lost from a 20 to a 16" barrel there should only be a loss of 200fps. However to be fair I will go out and chronograph our 20 and 16 inchers this week and post my results. As far as "killing power" our group has harvested 9 adult deer with 55 grain soft point bullets all one shot one kill. No long track jobs. Tiny hole going in, mush of heart and lungs no exits. Shots range from 30 to 250 yards. And to be fair the soft points are more lethal than mil spec fmj bullets
ReplyDeleteHowever to be fair I will go out and chronograph our 20 and 16 inchers this week and post my results.
DeleteThat would be gret.
==========
As far as "killing power" our group has harvested 9 adult deer with 55 grain soft point bullets all one shot one kill. No long track jobs. Tiny hole going in, mush of heart and lungs no exits. Shots range from 30 to 250 yards.
Seems to be the favorite of deer hunters around here.
My favorite rifle under $2000 is the Scout Squad.
ReplyDeleteI liked my carbine, but didn't like my M1 thumb.:)
DeleteGotta be quick with than thumb. Lol
DeleteThere was never anyone in my military school who received more than one. :)
DeleteI always figure there is no perfect weapon, no perfect cartridge and no ideal scenario that we face. I have 4-20 inch AR's and have built the 16 inch or M-4 clones. I like the 5.56 round but also like the 7.62x51, x54, .300 AAC and the 5.45x39. Lately my preference has been the Black Out due to the fact that reloading it gets a lot of rounds out per pound. We could go on but when the 5.56 is plentiful it gives the best performance not knocking the 7.62x39 but it would make better holes (terminal performance) if the bullet had a flat base.
ReplyDeleteInteresting stats. Glad to see them published.
ReplyDeleteJust put them out for info as I didn't know Anonymous.
DeleteFunny that until 1983 the published combat range for the M-16A1 was 225 yards (FM- 7-8 . pages 1-7 and C-5 " Ranges at which a 50 : 50 chance of target hit can be expected":)( FM 7-8 31 Dec.1980) The published effective range for the AKM in that same FM is 400 meters. IMO the "500 effective range" for the M-16A2 had more to do with cold war propaganda and "one upping" the Russians, than it did any "improvement" in the M-16 or the 5.56 ammunition---Ray
ReplyDeleteYou had a more extensive comment on this before. Do you by any chance still have it?
DeleteNo I never saved it, and anyway the AR fanboys will still equate SP hunting ammo with FMJ . The AK guys will still keep their AKs, The trolls will troll. and the egos will defend their turf. Everybody will defend "the best rifle EVEH!! 'Cause" MINE dog is better than your dog". Names will be called, dicks will be measured. Nothing will be gained or lost and nothing decided. "Assault rifles" are what they are; underpowered ,short ranged carbines ,developed for motorized infantry, to fight the battles of Stalingrad and Berlin. We seem to think that adding "bells and whistles" somehow makes the longest serving weapons type since the flintlock musket "modern". When in fact nothing could be further from the truth. Perhaps it is the truth that this seventy year old tech. is the last military weapons "improvement" that civilians will ever allowed to own, this side of civil war, that makes for such heated debate. Ether way opinions hardened long ago. Nothing that I wright will change them.---Ray
DeleteSupposed so. Here is an example of one soldier's preference.
DeleteA Few More Minutes To Live
http://tinyurl.com/mpb8kkw
The Take away; if the other guy is sporting current issue weapon, then Mr Long Distance is your friend. As I see it, the current military issued ammo is nothing more than a glorified .22 round, with a cult following. Question here, if the Stoner platform is wonderful, then why does it have to have a Forward Assist on it, to ensure the round is fully in the chamber? None of the AK series of weapons need to have one, not even the me too version of the M-16; the AK-74.
ReplyDeletePersonally, should I have the misfortune of being in that "oh shit" sitution, performing the unnatural act of shooting at another man, I have zero interest in wounding him. I want him dead, RFN!, in the least amount of time. The math here is very simple, more rounds fired, means more time in to fire those rounds, and that means the odds of some thing very bad happening to me, go up very rapidly, the longer I am in the hostile situation. The 5.56 round just not quite do the job of making other people dead ASAP.
Well, they say by only wounding a man, you are taking more than him out of action, but as you allude to, being wounded doesn't mean he won't stop firing, so I agree.
DeleteReally like the FAL and SCAR 17 too. Just wish they were more modular and user serviceable. Not really a good choice for a civilian that has no supply chain or field armorers.
ReplyDeleteThe AR is good for close quarters, especially against soft-skinned bad guys. It's so light and you can carry a lot of rounds a long way. Having a bolt action .30-06 slung is a good idea. Armored opponents will likely be firing AP rounds if they are organized military.
Thanks.
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