ATFE Form 4473

 

 Commander Zero

VERBATIM

There's been some discussion in comments a few posts back about ATFE Form 4473 and how it will lead to dastardly things happening.
 
I've been selling guns for a number of years, let me tell you how it works here in Montana. You buy a gun from me and fill out the 'yellow sheet'. If you have a carry permit, I dont have to call for the NCIC background check ... you fill out the form, collect your thundertoy and go. If I call the NCIC background weasels, they do get your personal info but they dont get to know what you purchased ... (oh, they know "handgun, long gun or other" but thats it ... they'll know the call is about you trying to buy a pistol ... they won't know its make, model, serial, caliber, etc.)
 
So, you fill out the yellow sheet, collect your gun and head home. What happens to that yellow sheet? Well, here in Montana there is no state requirement to do anything like fax it to the state police or something, like in other states. So, all I do is what the feds require. Here's what that is - the yellow sheet goes into a filing cabinet and after twenty years it goes into the shredder. (They may have changed that last part.)
 
So how does. Gov track you, then? Well, they'd have to send someone to the shop and have them demand to go through all the sheets looking for the one with your name. Other than that, they dont get that info ... the notion that a week after you buy a gun from an FFL (in Montana, anyway) your name is in a federal database somewhere with a serial number and all is kinda silly. Unless the feds are psychic and have mastered 'remote viewing' a'la Art Bell, there's no way for them to know until they come and pick up those sheets.
 
So how do guns get traced? Well, let's say little Leroy blows away a 7-11 clerk in Los Angeles and for some reason ATF decides it's worth following up on. They call Remington and ask who they shipped that 870 to. Remington says it went to Jovino's in 2005. They call Jovino's and ask who they sold it to. Jovino's calls them a few days later and says that after checking their books, they find they sold it so Joe Blow in '06. They contact Joe Blow and Joe says he sold that shotgun probably around '08 at a moving sale when he moved to Iowa. Some guy came up and offered $ 150 .. he had a receipt but he lost it in another move recently. At that point, the trail ends. Unless .... in '09 the guy who bought the 870 pawns it and never redeems it. The pawn shop logs it in and know its back 'in the system' in the sense that the next person to buy it has to fill out a yellow sheet. But tracing the gun from Remington will dead-end at the point where the new owner didn't do any paperwork ... that on-the-lawn moving sale.
 
Or ....... They call Remington and ask who they shipped that 870 to. Remington says it went to Jovino's in 1978. They call Jovino's and ask who they sold it to. Jovino's calls them a few days later and says that after checking their books, they find they sold it so Joe Blow in '79 but tossed all the yellow sheets in '99 when they hit the 20-year-mark. They have a name, "Joe Blow", copied from their in / out log, but no yellow sheet .. no address, no DOB, no POB, no nothin '. Sorry.
 
Or ... ATFE checks their records from gun shops that were closed and finds the last known person who bought it, and he says he sold that shotgun probably around '08 at a moving sale when he moved to Iowa. Some guy came up and offered $ 150 .. he had a receipt but he lost it in another move recent.y. At that point, the trail ends.
 
So let's review .... the only way your purchase, on a 4473, gets into the ATFE's hands is if the gun shop you purchased it from has gone out of business OR they are tracing a particular firearm and that firearm never changed hands without going through a dealer. The notion that they just do a couple keystrokes and find you bought a 10/22 last week is a bit far-fetched.
 
Now, some states do require the gundealer to send the records into a state agency and the state agency may have a database. Thats up to the state. In a place like Montana, and many other states, there is no state registration. What about ATFE just coming into a shop, grabbing all the 4473's and going door-to-door? I suppose they could but the idea that they have the manpower for such an activity is absurd. Oh, they might try to recruit local law agencies but I bet that wouldn't go very far. And, honestly, if they ask where that AR is you bought in '04 and you say you sold it at a yard sale to some college kid .. well, that's legal (in this state) so .. sorry, can't help ya, guys.
 
Does that mean there's no advantage to buying unpapered guns? Well, I prefer unpapered guns but I can't really put my finger on why. Intellectually, I know that the guns I do the yellow sheets on for myself aren't going in a database somewhere ... but I still like to get those free-range guns when I can.

Obama Executive Orders on Guns Would Spark Mass Resistance

 

As the Obama administration openly vows to use unconstitutional “executive orders” to further infringe on the right to keep and bear arms, gun rights activists, members of the law enforcement community, military personnel and others are pledging to resist. Everything from an armed uprising and nationwide civil disobedience to legal means of resistance like the courts and nullification is being openly discussed online and even in the establishment media.  

“The president is going to act,” pledged Vice President Joe Biden, who is leading an administration task force to further restrict gun rights in the wake of the Newtown massacre. "Executive order, executive action can be taken, we haven't decided what that is yet. But we're compiling it all with the help of the attorney general and all the rest of the cabinet members, as well as legislative action we believe is required."

The Constitution, of course, reserves all legislative powers to Congress — not to mention the specific prohibition against infringements on gun rights contained in the Second Amendment. But disgraced Attorney General Eric Holder, who is helping develop the “executive action” plot, was caught in the 1990s on video calling for a tax-funded campaign to “brainwash” people against guns. He was also held in criminal contempt of Congress for lying about Operation Fast and Furious, which saw the Justice Department providing thousands of powerful guns to Mexican drug cartels through the ATF.   

Appearing on CNN, Gun Owners of America chief Larry Pratt (pictured) said assaults on the Second Amendment imposed unilaterally by a lawless president would call the legitimacy of the federal government into question. Noting that Obama has already been ruling by decree in realms where he “has no authority” and that Biden is openly discussing “executive action” to deal with firearms, the no-compromise gun rights activist said any such unconstitutional presidential decrees infringing on the Second Amendment would have dire implications.

"That, I think, changes the game and throws into question the legitimacy of the federal government," Pratt told rabid anti-gun CNN host Piers Morgan, a Brit who has come under fire in recent weeks for his oftentimes disrespectful and hostile attitude toward defenders of the Second Amendment. "I would advise Mr. Obama to consider what happened to [King] George the third when he was doing similar things against the American colonists."

Meanwhile, former Congressman and GOP presidential candidate Ron Paul, who has millions of ardent supporters across America, suggested to radio host Alex Jones that “executive orders” purporting to ban guns may well spark a second American revolution. Jones himself made similar remarks in a heated interview this week on CNN as well, saying an assault on gun rights would lead to another revolution, drawing praise from his legions of followers but controversy in some conservative and libertarian circles. 

During the interview, Ron Paul pointed out the hypocrisy of trying to infringe on the rights of Americans due to the actions of a murderer even as the Obama administration continues killing children all over the world using drones. "It should go without saying that he's gone way too far. It also should go without saying that he's acting with the use of illegal violence, and he becomes the violent person," Rep. Paul explained. "These are dictatorial moves; they are very, very dangerous.”

Still, he did not believe Americans were likely to relinquish their firearms anytime soon. "I don't think the American people will [turn in their semi-automatic guns],” the doctor-turned lawmaker from Texas continued. “I've always assumed that the line in the sand may well be drawn if the federal agent marches in unannounced and they say, 'give me your gun and give me your gold.' I don't think they'll be able to do that calmly. I think the American people will highly resent it and resist."

More @ New American

RINO Gingrey says he's open to certain gun control measures

Via Don

U.S. Rep. Phil Gingrey (R-Marietta) tackled such sensitive topics as gun reform, abortion and rape during the Smyrna Area Council of the Cobb Chamber of Commerce breakfast which took place Thursday at the Smyrna Community Center.

Gingrey said he was open to considering certain gun control measures in the wake of the Connecticut elementary school massacre.

“There are some problems, and maybe these huge magazines even for someone who says, ‘look, I just use an AR-15 for target practice,’ but do you really need to be standing there shooting at a silhouette a shot a second or even quicker with that kind of weapon? For what purpose?” Gingrey asked. “I would be willing to listen to the possibility of the capacity of a magazine.”

More @ MDJ

I Will Not Be Intimidated

Via Don

 

As a young boy I was shot by a man whose clear intent was to kill me as I had deliberately, by throwing broken bricks at him, interrupted his attempt to rape a young teen-aged girl, allowing her to escape. To this day I can still see the evil in his face and the sun glistening off the barrel of the pistol he aimed in my direction. As I turned and began to run away he fired hitting me in back. The bullet entering my chest felt as if someone had hit me with baseball bat followed immediately by an excruciating burning sensation as I fell to the ground from the impact.   Perhaps it was the adrenaline, but I was able scramble to my feet and run as far as I could until finally passing out from the shock and loss of blood.   Fortunately, someone came to my rescue and took me to a military hospital and the first step on my journey to the United States.

According to the current incarnation of the American left, who traffic constantly in victimhood and noble intentions, I should be in the vanguard of the mandatory gun control and confiscation movement.  That somehow it was the inanimate object this soldier was holding and not him that was responsible for the attempt on my life or to ignore the fact that his mindset was such he would have used any weapon at hand to accomplish the same goal.   

On the contrary, I own a handgun today because of the experience of coming face to face with the evil that permeates some men's souls. I and the girl I rescued were defenseless.  There were no police or armed citizens around and the death of another homeless and unknown boy and girl, buried in an unmarked mass grave, would have been just another easily ignored casualty of the post-War period.  I was determined that I would never again face a similar circumstance. I have had in my possession firearms for virtually my entire life, as I have been fortunate to live in the one nation on earth that has embedded in its founding document the right to bear arms.

Today, I am, along with a vast majority of my fellow citizens, being made the scapegoat for the failed policies of the so-called progressives -- whether it is the inability of society to deal with extreme psychopaths or the mentally deranged, because the left insists they are entitled to the same rights as other citizens, or the never-ending attempt to rehabilitate criminals incapable of rehabilitation. Consistent with their inability to ever admit a mistake, the left and much of the Democratic Party  instead focuses on symbolism over substance and the path of least resistance -- going after the law-abiding hard working people who are the backbone of America.

But the motivation is more insidious than that. 

More @ American Thinker

Lawrence O’Donnell: Get rid of the Bible on Inauguration Day

 

On his Thursday program, MSNBC’s “The Last Word” host Lawrence O’Donnell said the Bible shouldn’t have any role in the upcoming Inauguration Day ceremonies.

The news that Passion City Church of Atlanta Pastor Louie Giglio lost the honor of giving the benediction at the inaugural ceremonies because he delivered anti-gay sermons, O’Donnell said, is a reminder of how much undue influence the Bible has in modern discourse.

“It turns out there is no better way for a pastor to get kicked out of the inauguration ceremony than quoting the Bible,” O’Donnell said. “That is what Louie Giglio, of Passion City Church in Atlanta, did to get knocked out of this year’s inauguration. His participation was announced at 9 a.m. on Tuesday by the Presidential Inaugural Committee. It took all of a day for something to surface in his Giglio’s sermonizing past that made him persona non grata at the swearing-in of a president who is in favor of gay rights, including marriage equality.”

More @ The Daily Caller

A story in pictures you won't forget easily

Roundabout via Carl

 

The rest @Yehweh

NRA Calls Biden Meeting ‘Attack on Second Amendment’

 

The president of the National Rifle Association on Thursday said there was no negotiation with the Obama administration on gun rights in an effort to stem violence in the wake of the shootings at a Connecticut elementary school last month.

“There isn’t on guns,” NRA President David Keene told CNN. “There is not on guns, not that I can see.”

Keene’s remarks came as Vice President Joseph Biden on Thursday said he saw a growing consensus for the federal government to seek universal background checks for gun buyers and a ban on high-capacity ammunition magazines.

But the NRA president told CNN that the association could work with the White House in trying to get those who have been determined by law to be mentally ill into a national registry of those who are barred from purchasing firearms.

“That would make a difference, because the people who have been involved in these shootings have been people who are severely mentally ill,” Keene said, referring to the Dec. 14 shootings at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., in which 20 children and six adults died.

“We don’t think you should demonize everybody who’s got a mental problem, but the fact is that there are people who are not in the gray area,” Keene told CNN. “They should not be allowed to buy firearms.”

More @ Newsmax

$200 Tax on Your AR-15? Contact Congress Immediately! We Stand As One!

There is an old adage, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." This week the media is trying to convince us that support for Senator Feinstein's anti-gun legislation is weak, but if we are not PRO-ACTIVE, the legislation will pass as written. You will wake up just in time for SHOT Show with new laws that make your AR-15 a Class 3 weapon. This means that if you want to keep your tactical rifles, you will have to register them, pay a $5-$200 tax, and notify the government if you intend to take them out of state. You will also completely waive your 4th Amendment rights to reasonable search and seizure. ATF will have the right to knock on your door and inspect the weapons anytime they want. You will also see an end to standard capacity magazines. This isn't a threat. It isn't political posturing. Diane Feinstein and the anti-gun machine have already introduced the legislation, and it will be rammed through Congress and signed by the President if we do not Stand As One and act today.

Please contact your legislators immediately, and post the links above to your discussion boards. Also please contact all of the gun companies you do business with and ask them to take action now and don't sit on their resources in reaching out to the gunowners of America. All of them have mailing lists, and all of them are sitting on them pretending that they don't have any responsibility, while doing record business in the stuff that is going to be banned or regulated. This 2nd Amendment crisis is not about KA-CHING. We call out to Midway USA, Gunbroker, Brownells, Sportsmen's Guide, Cabelas and all the firearms and accessory manufacturers. If you have a list, use it. We must Stand As One if we are to defeat this threat to our freedom. Aside from one NRA-ILA email notifying us about the legislation, even the NRA has been silent. Facebook isn't enough. Our testing has shown that the effectiveness of Facebook is very small.

You MUST EMAIL YOUR LISTS THIS WEEK before the legislation gains public support. We are about to enter a dark time in 2nd Amendment freedom and political wrangling from the NRA isn't going to cut it this far out from an election. The legislators need to hear from us, that we will work to defeat them in their next election bid.

This is not an alarmist position. The anti-gun machine was prepared for this opportunity, and they are very well organized. Senator Feinstein herself admitted that she has been working since last year to investigate all of the loopholes from the last "Assault Weapons Ban" and eliminate them. That means that this time there will be no thumbhole stocks, no sawed off flashhiders, no California "bullet buttons." It is almost as though the anti-gunners allowed the old ban to end in hopes of making a better one this time. This legislation is extremely comprehensive and if it passes, every tactical rifle in America will instantly become a Class 3 weapon. No new guns will be produced at all, effectively shuttering every AR-15 manufacturer in the country.

Don't be fooled by the pollsters this time, for or against. They key point in this legislation is that we are more than a year from the start of the next campaigns for the mid-term elections. The anti-gun lobbyists, as you read this, are contacting the House and Senate members trying to convince them that American voters are not going to punish them for voting for new and sweeping gun control. Few politicians actually stand for anything, so how we react is paramount to defeating this legislation. You must notify your legislators that you are watching their vote and that you will work to defeat them in their next election bid if they vote for any new gun legislation that comes out of the Sandy Hook shootings. Over 500 people have been killed in Chicago this year, the most gun restrictive city in the USA. We will not sacrifice our 2nd Amendment rights because the media is up in arms about the slaughter of 20 white kids by a mentally disturbed individual who stole his mommy's guns.

Also don't think that the Supreme Court is going to help us on this one. The legislation clearly identifies the approach to grandfathered weapons as a tax, and the Supreme Court has recently dealt with this issue on Obamacare, and refused to strike it down. Our swing vote, the George W. Bush appointed Justice Stevens, has already demonstrated that he will not strike down major legislation from the bench if he can find a way to avoid it, and this tax approach to our guns won't even make the Supreme Court. You may think that the original 2nd Amendment guaranteed us the right to the same guns at the government (muskets at the time), but there is plenty of Federal case law from the 1986 machinegun ban that has laid the groundwork for this Feinstein bill. It will pass, and it will stand.
If we Stand As One this week, the legislation will be stopped. Please contact your reps in the House and your Senators today. Mobilize your friends and family. Email everyone in your contact list. And most importantly post the direct links above (not to GunsAmerica) to every single discussion board, blog or forum to which you frequent.

As we have tried to explain already, GunsAmerica is all alone out here in this fight. Please encourage the gun websites you do business with to join our Stand As One campaign and email their mailing lists to fight this game changing legislation. We are all NRA Life and Endowment members here at GunsAmerica, yet nothing has come from NRA. Our competitors Gunbroker have sent nothing, apparently content with the spike in business. Midway USA has a huge list, yet nothing has come from them. Brownells is in the news for selling 3 1/2 years of magazines in one day, yet nothing has come from their email list. And worst of all, Cheaper Than Dirt actually announced that they would stop selling guns online, supporting the public opinion against our guns. Sportsman's Guide even had the nerve to send a happy go lucky "After Christmas" sale email on AR-15 accessories. Don't boycott these companies. Contact these companies! We have to stand together or we are going to lose. Now is not the time to argue and sit on our resources of huge email lists to America's gun enthusiasts. We Stand As One!

Some of you got upset at us calling Alex Jones a turd in the punchbowl of 2nd Amendment freedom, but it is the truth. The conspiracy theory websites do not stand with us on this one, though they claim that they do. A lot of young people are caught up in a conspiracy theory mindset that is preventing them from seeing the forest through the trees. 2nd Amendment rights were never about hunting, and there has always been an out in the open "conspiracy" against them. if you espouse big government control and oversight of all Americans, you obviously don't want free thinkers to be armed. It doesn't take a conspiracy theorist to figure out that Diane Feinstein wants to watch and control all Americans, and disarming us is an important step for her and her ilk. Alex Jones and his gang may seem well intentioned, but what they really want is internet traffic. They want to sell you the movies and the water purifiers and the survival food and the male enhancement pills, PERIOD. Guns are just the latest thing on the conspiracy theory bandwagon because it "gets the buzz going." They may be gun loving Americans at heart, but what is driving them today is the almighty but ever weakening $$$ dollar.

Diane Feinstein doesn't care how much survival food you have in your bunker . But what she does have is the actual power to halt the production of an entire class of firearms and magazines, and she plans to do that, this week. Get out of your armchair and get into action.

This quote from a recent article in the Russian newspaper Pravda urging us to not give up our 2nd Amendment freedom says a great deal:

Do not be fooled by a belief that progressives, leftists hate guns. Oh, no, they do not. What they hate is guns in the hands of those who are not marching in lock step of their ideology. They hate guns in the hands of those who think for themselves and do not obey without question. They hate guns in those whom they have slated for a barrel to the back of the ear.
 
We must Stand As One!  
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The Vepr continues to evolve

Oleg Volk

VERBATIM

The original rifle was a standard 20 ".308 Vepr from Wolf Arms .

 

20 "Barrel combined with Texas Weapons Aperture sight on a Dog leg scope rail = very Long sight radius. Not yet installed but Coming - fiber optic front sight from HiViz .
Wide stock on a hydraulic shock absorber = roughly 22WMR level of recoil.
X5L light and green laser = close-range backup sighting option. Aimpoint M2 for longer range.
TSD 20rd magazine. With rock and lock magazines, the extra length is important for leverage and not just capacity.
 


I swapped the original rail for Texas Weapons part and like it much better. It's more solid and less abrasive. Magpul sling attachment on top of that to keep the rifle from rolling when slung across.
Still need to add Krebbs extended selector lever.

GOA Alert

                         

 

It’s an all-out assault on your Second Amendment rights.

 

Arrogant Obama-supporters have been emboldened by what they perceive to be a massive electoral mandate -- despite the fact that Obama would have lost the election if only 334,000 votes in four critical states had gone differently.

 

But to be sure, these gun grabbers have made their objectives pretty clear.

 

Illegal orders and confiscation

 

* “The president is going to act.  There are executive orders, executive action that can be taken [and] we’re compiling it all with the help [of] the attorney general and all the rest of the cabinet members as well as legislative action we believe is required.” -- Vice President Joe Biden, January 9, 2013

 

* “Confiscation could be an option.” -- New York Governor Andrew Cuomo in a radio interview (December 27, 2012)

 

* “We cannot have big guns out here ... semi-automatics and all of them,” said Iowa Rep. Dan Muhlbauer. “Even if you have them, I think we need to start taking them.” -- interview with the Iowa Daily Times Herald (December 19, 2012)

 

Sweeping new guns & ammo bans

 

* The proposed Illinois semi-auto ban would “ban more than 50% of the rifles and more than 80% of handguns” currently owned by Illinoisans. -- Study by Illinois State Rifle Association

 

* “Ammunition is now the black hole in gun violence prevention.” -- Connecticut U.S. Senator Richard Blumenthal (D), January 8, 2013

 

Registering gun owners

 

* Biden is being pushed to accept “universal background checks [and laws to] track the movement and sale of weapons through a national database.” -- The Washington Post, January 6, 2013, p. A1

 

* The goal is to “break the back” of the gun lobby. -- Democratic operative Julian Epstein (MSNBC)

 

Read all of these quotes again.  Let them sink in.

 

This is the goal of the so-called “reasonable, common sense” crowd in Congress. Consider what they want to accomplish:

 

(1) Immediate bans on most guns currently in circulation.

 

(2) Accompanied by national registration of guns and ammunition.

 

(3) Followed by confiscation. 

 

And, under rules changes being pushed by Senate Democrats, once you allow the least bit of gun control to go forward, the process will be beyond anyone’s ability to stop once it turns really nasty and extreme. 

 

The bottom line:  ALL gun control should be opposed in its entirety.

 

We are beyond the point of negotiating our demise with people who have made it clear that their objective is to destroy us. 

  

The only solution is to oppose EVERY SINGLE GUN CONTROL proposal.  Every single one. 

 

Gun control is not the answer.  Connecticut had just about the most draconian gun control laws in the country, and they were absolutely unable to stop Adam Lanza from using a stolen firearm to shoot up a school. 

 

ACTION:  Click here to contact your U.S. Representative.  Demand that they oppose ALL GUN CONTROL.