Out of respect for those who have chosen to defend our rights I have always recited and gave respect to our pledge .But after alot of reading pre proggresive era history books I can not pledge allegence to something that has strayed so far from what it was supposed to represent.I hope and pray that no veterans take offence but I swore I would not say or respect our pledge again until we have common sense Constitutional leadership again.
It should only be to the Constitution or similar to the one for the Confederate Flag, although the Cause, as you mentioned in so many words, has strayed.
I SALUTE THE CONFEDERATE FLAG WITH AFFECTION, REVERENCE AND UNDYING DEVOTION TO THE CAUSE* FOR WHICH IT STANDS.
You guys gotta be kidding; right? Say a freaking *pledge* to the flag or the Constitution or anything is totally asinine! I mean any such pledge referring to any country or government. This just sits me off!
Do any of you know when the Pledge of Allegiance was first used/said? Do you know the history behind the Pledge? Do you know who originally wrote the pledge? Do you even know why it was first used by the government and when? Our Founding Fathers wouldn't just be horrified at it being directed towards the flag, they would horrified and maddened to see it used ANYWHERE! The Pledge of Allegiance is a disgrace and it shows the IGNORANCE of anyone who repeats it in public. It shows how RECONSTRUCTED you really are!
Sorry but ya'll fellas kind'of ticked me off with this one! But I know you mean well in your hearts...
Say a freaking *pledge* to the flag or the Constitution or anything is totally asinine!
You are incorrect. The Founders would have certainly been happy to pledge allegiance to the Constitution, after all they wrote it. Have no idea why you would say otherwise.
No one here was kidding I was just expressing my thoughts on saying the pledge with Brock, someone I consider a scholar and a gentleman,I was never Reconstructed but was instucted from the first day of elementary school to recite the pledge and did so proudly until I became wiser. As far as ticking you off apparently you've mistaken me for someone who gives a damn.
Yeah I get ticked at the pledge. And yeah I was dumb too once myself and didn't know any better. I think that is a main thing that ticks me off about it, that I fell for it when I was young and thought it was good thing.
Today I now know it is a horrible thing and I think back on how many people have been brainwashed by this pledge to the devil. I also know it is a hopeless case in trying to educate people about it. They will only get mad....
I'm not writing much but I'll give a few lines of overview. The Pledge was written by a Marxist and used as re-indoctrination for Southerners during Lincoln's War. If you didn't recite it you were not allowed citizenship back into the united States.
Originally, until Hitler came to power and WWII, the pledge was given NOT by placing your hand over your heart or by salute but by NAZI style salute.
As for Brock stating he thinks the FFs would have liked the pledge, no they wouldn't. The pledge is for the federal government and it being treated as the center of power, being above the power of the states. This is completely contrary to what the FFs had envisioned and planned for in the AoC and the US Constitution. Neither was to replace or supersede the powers of the state. While the AoC had no real problems among the states, concerning power, the US Constitution laid the framework for a Federal Government that could increase its' scope on power much more easily than the AoC. That's why you saw many anti-Federalists such as Patrick Henry. They fully understood the beast that was being created.
The states were in ultimate control of their Sovereignty and they voluntarily joined the union, voluntary with the understanding they retained their Sovereignty as individual countries. Therefore the Federal Government was NOTHING, absolutely nothing but a tool and agent of the states. There was to be NO loyalty to the federal government at all because it existed solely for the benefit of the member states. It should be quite clear that one cannot pledge themselves to anything that is superseded, being an agent and a tool for the specific purpose of serving *ITS'* master, the several states. At best one could claim some type of allegiance to their state since it was their country.
Tim Manning has wrote and published an excellent book on the subject of the Pledge of Allegiance. I have a copy but have only skimmed over parts of it, as I was already somewhat familiar with the original intent of the pledge. But if you are curious and wish to spend some time researching it, there are plenty of references and even videos on the pledge you can find by Googling the the terms.
I will never recite the pledge again unless by force or duress. It is an insult to me and everything I stand for....
The Constitution is represented by the flag as well as the Flag being represented by the Constitution.(Do you not think of one when the other is mentioned or thought of?) It is one and the same. The Constitution is NOT represented by the states, but is a CREATION of the states. It is the symbolism of it with the flag representing the states as a whole, and that is just another agent or tool. That is NO different than the pledge itself! Both the pledge and flag are ONLY forms of SYMBOLISM, representing an agent of the states. BTW I don't respect the flag either..... except if I am forced or under duress.... Now my state flag is a different matter....
Cool history lesson but I have to agree with Brock on this one I mean would signing it{the constitution} not be a pledge ? Were they not saying these are a set of principle's we uphold and will adhere to by signing their name?
I am sworn to defend the Constitution. Is that not allegiance? I am not sworn to defend the flag. I also swear to defend my family against all invaders. I think the first time I read Brock's take on pledging to the flag is when I became a permanent subscriber to Free North Carolina. He hillbillies from the Madison and Burke County end of the state have always been different. I put Governor Z.B. Vance just below Lee and Jackson.
From Wikipedia- "The Shelton Laurel Massacre refers to the execution of 13 accused Union sympathizers on or about January 18, 1863 by a Confederate regiment in the Shelton Laurel Valley of Madison County, North Carolina at the height of the American Civil War. The event sparked outrage among North Carolina Governor Zebulon B. Vance and Solicitor Augustus Merrimon (the latter of whom investigated the event), and was published in numerous newspapers in northern states and as far away as Europe. While the massacre destroyed the military career and reputation of Lieutenant-colonel James A. Keith, the adjunct commander who ordered the executions, he was never brought to justice for the incident.[1]"
I as Stonewall Jackson will fight under the BLACK flag. I ask for no quarters and will give none. War is war, and the Bible tells us where the Israelites were ordered to sleigh every man, woman and child and take nothing as spoils. As another famous general said, "Kill them all and let God sort them out." It's coming here..
As for the Constitution and taking an oath to it. I think it a good idea that you readers look up and study when this first started and how it expanded to what we see today. It's not the same thing as originally meant. Today it is used as a form of control over people. Before Lincoln's War people would have laughed at taking such a pledge or oath to the US Constitution. It was their states that they pledged their allegiance too.
I'm not trying to be mean towards anyone or specifically belittle anyone inparticular. So, I hold no ill will towards anyone who disagrees with over the issue. I only hope the same from each of you, especially since I take absolutely NO part in any federal endeavors. I simply despise anything having to deal with a federal union and government, as it is extremely evil... and time proves that.
Out of respect for those who have chosen to defend our rights I have always recited and gave respect to our pledge .But after alot of reading pre proggresive era history books I can not pledge allegence to something that has strayed so far from what it was supposed to represent.I hope and pray that no veterans take offence but I swore I would not say or respect our pledge again until we have common sense Constitutional leadership again.
ReplyDeleteIt should only be to the Constitution or similar to the one for the Confederate Flag, although the Cause, as you mentioned in so many words, has strayed.
DeleteI SALUTE THE CONFEDERATE FLAG WITH AFFECTION, REVERENCE AND
UNDYING DEVOTION TO THE CAUSE* FOR WHICH IT STANDS.
You guys gotta be kidding; right?
ReplyDeleteSay a freaking *pledge* to the flag or the Constitution or anything is totally asinine! I mean any such pledge referring to any country or government. This just sits me off!
Do any of you know when the Pledge of Allegiance was first used/said? Do you know the history behind the Pledge? Do you know who originally wrote the pledge? Do you even know why it was first used by the government and when? Our Founding Fathers wouldn't just be horrified at it being directed towards the flag, they would horrified and maddened to see it used ANYWHERE!
The Pledge of Allegiance is a disgrace and it shows the IGNORANCE of anyone who repeats it in public. It shows how RECONSTRUCTED you really are!
Sorry but ya'll fellas kind'of ticked me off with this one! But I know you mean well in your hearts...
Michael-- Deo Vindicabamur
Say a freaking *pledge* to the flag or the Constitution or anything is totally asinine!
DeleteYou are incorrect. The Founders would have certainly been happy to pledge allegiance to the Constitution, after all they wrote it. Have no idea why you would say otherwise.
No one here was kidding I was just expressing my thoughts on saying the pledge with Brock, someone I consider a scholar and a gentleman,I was never Reconstructed but was instucted from the first day of elementary school to recite the pledge and did so proudly until I became wiser. As far as ticking you off apparently you've mistaken me for someone who gives a damn.
ReplyDeleteYeah I get ticked at the pledge. And yeah I was dumb too once myself and didn't know any better. I think that is a main thing that ticks me off about it, that I fell for it when I was young and thought it was good thing.
ReplyDeleteToday I now know it is a horrible thing and I think back on how many people have been brainwashed by this pledge to the devil. I also know it is a hopeless case in trying to educate people about it. They will only get mad....
I'm not writing much but I'll give a few lines of overview. The Pledge was written by a Marxist and used as re-indoctrination for Southerners during Lincoln's War. If you didn't recite it you were not allowed citizenship back into the united States.
Originally, until Hitler came to power and WWII, the pledge was given NOT by placing your hand over your heart or by salute but by NAZI style salute.
As for Brock stating he thinks the FFs would have liked the pledge, no they wouldn't. The pledge is for the federal government and it being treated as the center of power, being above the power of the states. This is completely contrary to what the FFs had envisioned and planned for in the AoC and the US Constitution. Neither was to replace or supersede the powers of the state. While the AoC had no real problems among the states, concerning power, the US Constitution laid the framework for a Federal Government that could increase its' scope on power much more easily than the AoC. That's why you saw many anti-Federalists such as Patrick Henry. They fully understood the beast that was being created.
The states were in ultimate control of their Sovereignty and they voluntarily joined the union, voluntary with the understanding they retained their Sovereignty as individual countries. Therefore the Federal Government was NOTHING, absolutely nothing but a tool and agent of the states. There was to be NO loyalty to the federal government at all because it existed solely for the benefit of the member states. It should be quite clear that one cannot pledge themselves to anything that is superseded, being an agent and a tool for the specific purpose of serving *ITS'* master, the several states. At best one could claim some type of allegiance to their state since it was their country.
Tim Manning has wrote and published an excellent book on the subject of the Pledge of Allegiance. I have a copy but have only skimmed over parts of it, as I was already somewhat familiar with the original intent of the pledge. But if you are curious and wish to spend some time researching it, there are plenty of references and even videos on the pledge you can find by Googling the the terms.
I will never recite the pledge again unless by force or duress. It is an insult to me and everything I stand for....
Michael-- Deo Vindicabamur
As for Brock stating he thinks the FFs would have liked the pledge, no they wouldn't.
DeleteThe pledge to the Constitution, not the flag, for the third time.
The Constitution is represented by the flag as well as the Flag being represented by the Constitution.(Do you not think of one when the other is mentioned or thought of?) It is one and the same. The Constitution is NOT represented by the states, but is a CREATION of the states. It is the symbolism of it with the flag representing the states as a whole, and that is just another agent or tool. That is NO different than the pledge itself! Both the pledge and flag are ONLY forms of SYMBOLISM, representing an agent of the states. BTW I don't respect the flag either..... except if I am forced or under duress.... Now my state flag is a different matter....
ReplyDeleteMichael-- Deo Vindicabamur
The Founders signed the Constitution, so they would be hypocrites if they wouldn't back it. Hang it up.
DeleteCool history lesson but I have to agree with Brock on this one I mean would signing it{the constitution} not be a pledge ? Were they not saying these are a set of principle's we uphold and will adhere to by signing their name?
ReplyDeleteYes, certainly.
DeleteDon't forget in the pledge where it says, "..one nation, indivisible.."
ReplyDeleteThat is wrong. The word *indivisible* should be *DIVISIBLE*.
Michael-- Deo Vindicabamur
I am sworn to defend the Constitution. Is that not allegiance? I am not sworn to defend the flag. I also swear to defend my family against all invaders. I think the first time I read Brock's take on pledging to the flag is when I became a permanent subscriber to Free North Carolina. He hillbillies from the Madison and Burke County end of the state have always been different. I put Governor Z.B. Vance just below Lee and Jackson.
ReplyDeleteFrom Wikipedia-
"The Shelton Laurel Massacre refers to the execution of 13 accused Union sympathizers on or about January 18, 1863 by a Confederate regiment in the Shelton Laurel Valley of Madison County, North Carolina at the height of the American Civil War. The event sparked outrage among North Carolina Governor Zebulon B. Vance and Solicitor Augustus Merrimon (the latter of whom investigated the event), and was published in numerous newspapers in northern states and as far away as Europe. While the massacre destroyed the military career and reputation of Lieutenant-colonel James A. Keith, the adjunct commander who ordered the executions, he was never brought to justice for the incident.[1]"
Murdered for stealing salt for their families.
That was made into a short film, I believe.
DeleteI as Stonewall Jackson will fight under the BLACK flag. I ask for no quarters and will give none. War is war, and the Bible tells us where the Israelites were ordered to sleigh every man, woman and child and take nothing as spoils. As another famous general said, "Kill them all and let God sort them out." It's coming here..
ReplyDeleteAs for the Constitution and taking an oath to it. I think it a good idea that you readers look up and study when this first started and how it expanded to what we see today. It's not the same thing as originally meant. Today it is used as a form of control over people. Before Lincoln's War people would have laughed at taking such a pledge or oath to the US Constitution. It was their states that they pledged their allegiance too.
I'm not trying to be mean towards anyone or specifically belittle anyone inparticular. So, I hold no ill will towards anyone who disagrees with over the issue. I only hope the same from each of you, especially since I take absolutely NO part in any federal endeavors. I simply despise anything having to deal with a federal union and government, as it is extremely evil... and time proves that.
Michael-- Deo Vindicabamur
We obviously disagree as to whether or not the Founders would have backed the very document they signed, so let us go on to bigger and better things.
Delete