Thursday, May 7, 2015

Museum in Hamburg Examines Allied War Crimes in World War II

Via Jeffery



A new museum in the German city of Hamburg has proven to be highly popular with tourists, offering as it does an often-hidden truth about World War II—that the Allies started the mass concentrated bombing of civilians, but in postwar propaganda always accused the Germans of starting the “blitz.”

The museum, located at the bombed-out ruins of the Church of St. Nicholas in the city center, was opened last year and is the first in Germany devoted exclusively to the suffering of Germans during the war.
The church where the museum is located was a central navigation point for the Allied bombers, with its high Gothic spire (still the second highest building in Hamburg) being easily visible.

British historian Richard Overy, who was consultant on the project, was quoted last year as saying that “it would put the destruction of Hamburg into context with an even-handed story of air-raids during the war.


  1. I visited this museum on my last visit to Hamburg. It's true, war is hell but usually the winner dictates the "truth". Just ask anyone from the south.

    1. It's not true that the winners dictate teh truth. The truth is that the everyone who survives gets to tell their story. Libraries all over the world are full of the stories of losers. There are books by Lee, Longstreet, Rommel, Adan, Paulus all wrote books after losing. Even people living behind the Iron curtain wrote about it and lived to see it published globally (Solzenitzin).

      All of that truth is free for the talking for anyone who cares enough about it to open a book. made even easier now by the internet.

      Where it all breaks down is that most people simply don't care about the truth 100 years ago. One mythology is as good as another when neither one matters to you today.

    2. most people simply don't care about the truth 100 years ago.

      The collectivists do though and could care less if they lie.

    3. Just because a thing is published the truth may not be present

  2. "In reality, the German air force deliberately avoided bombing civilians, particularly in Britain—and it was only after the British Royal Air Force had bombed German cities for months on end, that the Luftwaffe was ordered to strike back."

    What a load of hogwash.

    I seem to recall the Luftwaffe flattened many cities in Poland and Russia, and would have done more of it had they had more heavy bombers to do the job.

    This is much like the navel-gazing bullshit modern-day revisionism regarding the nuking of Japan.

    I'm guessing my Navy SeaBee grandfather didn't cry about the glassing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. If he had had to take part in the invasion of Japan, there's a good chance I wouldn't be here.

    Screw the Japs and the Germans of that time. They made their beds...

  3. There was a difference between the way Germans treated us and Russian prisoners though, since they considered the former as equals, but not the latter.

  4. Also, The Germans and British could each have unilaterally stopped bombing civilians any time they wanted to. They could also each have sent messages to the other side offering to agree to stop doing it. Neither side did.

    They were both deeply entrenched in total war by that time. They both would have done anything to win, even exterminating the other side.

  5. In any war, civilians always suffer the most. Their homes, families and livelihoods are destroyed. There is no protection for them from either side. And yet they are the ones to rebuild. I hope there is enough of us left when it is our turn.

  6. Yes and reminds me of one yesterday.

  7. The German people have a great military tradition which the British have not; certainly not so far as the army is concerned. The German professional officers, who were always very numerous in Germany, stick particularly to their code of honor and chivalry. The English commanders are mostly dilettantes and are hastily recruited, under the pressure of emergency, from the most varied group of the population. They don't know the moral scruples which a German commander possesses as an inborn gift. Hence, the Royal Air Force's attacks on women and children, hospitals, churches, historical buildings and monuments, whereas the Germans attacked only military objectives. If the Luftwaffe did bomb even industrial objectives, which is doubted, it was exclusively a retaliation measure, reprisals after endless warnings.

    1. Thanks and bombing industrial facilities supporting the war effort would be a debatable issue.

  8. The pain of war cannot exceed the woo of its aftermath

    1. indyjonesouthereMay 9, 2015 at 5:34 PM

      People may be able to make their views and experiences available to the world but it is governments that determine if they will be heard in the government education system, the radio waves, or in newsprint. Bravo for the internet.

    2. Bravo for the internet.

      Hear! Hear!

  9. The targeting of civilians has always been a strategy of war. The brief period from say 1500 to 1900 was an exception....the 'code of chivalry' and all that made it less
    honorable, less manly to kill noncombatants wantonly. Not that there weren't exceptions (Sherman, paging Gen. Sherman) but the deliberate targeting of nonmilitary people was reined in somewhat for a few centuries.

    With the birth of modern warfare starting with WW1 we see industrial capacity being recognized as a fundamental part of war efforts and the subsequent targeting of such
    industry. In the First World War we had German Zeppelins dropping bombs in England, initially targeting 'industry' and 'transporation' but even that pretense was dropped quickly. Once England developed the means to knock down zeppelins the Germans switched to winged bombers....but the targeting of cities with bombers and civilian ships with submarines had opened the door to all out war with no group held as safe.

    The events of WWII merely expand and enlarge on what began 2 decades earlier.
    All parties on both sides engaged in willful bombing and killing of unarmed people. The rationale used may have varied but the fundamental actions were identical save
    for the variations in machinery and efficiency. Of course the US brought the concept to an entirely new and 'perfected' (sic) level. We brought the sheer efficiency of our
    mass production system to the game and truly took killing wholesale to a new level
    culminating in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. And the trend while diminishing hasn't gone away.....merely become a bit more precise.

    Instead of leveling entire city blocks to get one factory we can now bomb the shit out of a backyard BBQ with a drone, killing half a dozen women and children but by god
    we got the target while he was swilling a beer.

    Humans are a violent predatory species.....when you remove the inherent dislike many have for violence delivered up close and personal the sheer volume and level
    of killing we as a species are capable of is mind boggling.